Pascal (00:00.813)
Hi, welcome to One Degree Shifts. I'm your host Pascal Tremblay. I'm the co-founder of Nectar, and I'm super excited about this conversation. We're talking to Bettina Roth today. She's an embodied leadership coach, conscious movement facilitator, and a community builder based in my home province-ish of British Columbia, Canada. Hi, Bettina.
Bettina Rothe (00:20.29)
Hi, welcome. Thanks so much for having me here today.
Pascal (00:24.037)
Yeah, I'm very excited about this because movement and embodiment is a topic that's dear to me because it's been such a present thing for me in the last years around my own personal journey of healing. I came from a place of huge disconnection with my body. And over time, it's just been more deepening and experiencing more and more of the power of connecting to our bodies. And embodiment has been a huge.
trajectory for me of continuous seeking and exploring what that means for me in my life. And on your website, and I really like your website, it says, a path of return into wholeness of body, mind, heart and spirit. What do you mean by wholeness?
Bettina Rothe (01:08.354)
Well, exactly what you said, the embodiment part is so big, right? It's like that understanding that we can only become whole if we're actually living fully in our bodies. And I was on a call earlier, actually, where somebody was talking about our nine different bodies from really our densest physical part all the way to our energy bodies. And I believe that that integration and interweaving of those bodies is what creates that feeling of wholeness and also of alignment.
Pascal (01:19.78)
Mm.
Bettina Rothe (01:37.72)
so that my emotional body and my mental body, which are the ones that we use the most, actually move with our physicality, so that we're not moving against ourselves or moving only from a small part of ourselves. And the idea of calling spirit back in the body, because you brought the word spirit in as well, I think really means that...
consciousness lives inside of ourselves and that our path of awakening and connection with spirit doesn't happen somewhere out there, but it happens inside of ourselves. And that in itself is, I think, a wound of disconnection that a lot of us can't.
Pascal (02:16.196)
Yeah. And our website, you mentioned the reconnection. The big part of your work is about reconnection to our body, others and the web of life through movement. And I really liked that. And I liked that you bring up the topic of nine bodies. Can you explain a bit more of the relationship between the physical body, which is what most people think about when we say body and all those different bodies, like how did they interconnect and play together really?
Bettina Rothe (02:40.926)
Yeah, well, I was a student on that call, so I'm not going to comment on that body of work specifically because I literally I started taking notes and I was like, I want to investigate that further. But maybe I'll just talk about the bodies that I work with and the circles of inclusion work. You know, I think the first one is Earth body is that recognition that we're part of the earth. We're not separate from her. And so that wounding of uprooting, you know, is often the first one that people feel.
Pascal (02:45.784)
Hahaha.
Bettina Rothe (03:10.2)
when we asked them to connect to their physical bodies and just the simple act of feeling the earth below and using her as an anchor and as a resource and as that primary relationship that while we're in an earth body, we're always going to be here unless we're turning into astronauts. I was like, that is our primary relationship. And then that connects us directly to our physical bodies.
I differentiate between kind of the external of the body, which a lot of us refer to, you know, how do I look, how's my hair, good posture and the inner experience of the body. So you could say, yeah, I know we always sit back right up, right? When someone says posture and that's a good thing. It's like bringing that awareness to our vessels, but I'm really interested as how do you inhabit your vessel and can your awareness touch the inside of your body?
And that is the inner body. And that's the magic zone, you know, where the emotional and mental and energy bodies, they interweave and we can create a lot of change by working with our physical body. And that includes, you know, the shifting of posture. It includes our awareness of breath, but it has a lot to do with how I'm willing to inhabit or use the word embody myself. And when I first started, nobody knew what embodiment even was, you know, it was like this.
Pascal (04:28.579)
Mm.
Bettina Rothe (04:29.26)
weird terms, like, what do you mean? And now, you know, I love seeing there's conferences, there's podcasts, there's all these things, there's leadership development and therapy, you know, we're talking about embodiment. But really what that means to me is that I'm at home in myself, and the body becomes a resource and also a source of intelligence. We talk about somatic intelligence. And so the somatic intelligence, the emotional intelligence are additional, you know, to our brilliant minds.
Pascal (04:41.09)
Hmm.
Pascal (04:58.722)
And I, you know, I really love what you're sharing about embodiment because I went from this pure disconnection of my body and I'd love that you bring up the earth because that's me. That's me. Like you said, the primary disconnection that we have is we're disconnected from the living body that gives us life. And part of my practice in the morning now is just to put my feet on the earth and remember that connection because that just brings me right into grounding and into connection again and gratefulness really for.
everything that the earth provides to us. That's something that a lot of us forget. And of course we get busy, we do podcasts or whatever, and we just kind of get disconnected from that primary source of embodiment. So I really love that you share that. And on a societal level, I think that that disconnection on the physical side to the planet is causing us to create all these sort of arms in a way that we interface with that planet. it's a very powerful.
line of thread that we're weaving here today and all the work that you've been doing on this is so rich and we can touch on many things, but I'd like to bring it back to the first personal story you've had with movement. What was your first ha ha movement with somatics or embodiment or movement? Maybe it's at a festival someday or like, what was the first moment you were like, wow, this is something powerful.
Bettina Rothe (06:07.982)
Thank
Bettina Rothe (06:16.096)
It's funny that you said festival, but it was something like that. You know, I grew up very academic in West Berlin and, know, was definitely kind of on the mental path of understanding the world. And I was always athletic, but I was told that I was not a dancer. You know, like I actually got asked to leave the ballet class because I wasn't graceful enough. And so.
Pascal (06:20.257)
Mm-hmm.
Bettina Rothe (06:38.478)
I never considered myself a dancer. And then, know, grade seven, the awkward stepping from left to right, the shuffle at the first party. But then, you know, I discovered, yeah, you did. I know, so awkward, right? And then, you know, the close dancing and, and I was like, wow, this is so interesting. Like in my heart, I knew I was a dancer because what I used to do was close my bedroom door.
Pascal (06:46.626)
I went through that as well. I went through that awkward shuffle.
Bettina Rothe (07:02.574)
because I had anxiety to not be perfect at school and with my parents and all the social stuff that I was doing, I would close the door, turn on really loud music and just let my body move. And I would like cry, I would stomp. So I knew deep down that movement was helping me to self-regulate and release some of the stress.
And then as I grew older, I discovered the Berlin underground scene, specifically the house and techno scene. So that was really my playground. And in some weird way, I was living that double life, know, like academia during the day and clubbing for probably at the height of it, three, four nights a week. And I felt home in the beats. I think that was like that revelation that it's not just me, but it's a community that's coming together. And we're aligning around.
Pascal (07:43.33)
Mm.
Bettina Rothe (07:54.264)
You know, techno beats are quite fast, but if you have a whole room, boom, boom, boom, and going into that, it creates that altered state for us together to be in. And I found those extremely healing. And I would wake up and, you know, discover parts of myself that otherwise weren't possible. And I wasn't even using psychedelics yet. You know, that was really just me and the beat and maybe a Red Bull. So yeah.
Pascal (08:06.836)
Mm.
Pascal (08:16.479)
Mm-hmm.
Pascal (08:20.586)
Yeah.
Bettina Rothe (08:21.996)
Deep gratitude for all those club DJs way back when and just the wildness of people coming together being themselves. There's an element of authenticity that this type of movement has brought me. And that's always been my aim to share that it's not about a form or looking a certain way. It's about movement that is authentic, that comes from the depth of who you are.
Pascal (08:33.601)
Hmm.
Pascal (08:49.173)
that relates so much to that story. For me, it was the same experience in a club experience where I had this ha ha moment of togetherness with people dancing and I had never felt that before. And was very deeply healing and transformative for me. not just from a collective connection point of view, but also about self acceptance. Like you said, self expression to be in a space where you can just be who you are and express yourself and all is welcome within boundaries, of course of ethics and things, but
Everything is welcome as to who you are and how you're showing up to this experience. And there's something about shared culture around rhythm, like that transcends geographical location, backgrounds, cultures, all of that stuff is transcend the true, beats, which like you said, connects us to something deeper about our humanity.
Bettina Rothe (09:26.456)
Yeah.
Bettina Rothe (09:40.396)
Yeah, my teacher, Gabrielle Roth, who was the founder of the five rhythms practice, you know, that's my main practice that I'm offering. And I was lucky to study with her for 12 years until she passed. You she would always say rhythm is a mother tongue and rhythm was there prior to spoken language. And, you know, it's like in the simple things, you know, in the drums, like people drumming together or, you know, women, women.
doing laundry or clapping together or know, men rowing together. So it doesn't necessarily always have to be in the dance, but there's something in our brains that actually syncs when we're in sync with each other through the beat and it's very calming for our nervous system. And you know, I think the movement aspect, you know, the dance, there's also a celebration here.
And it can also be a healing opportunity. Many cultures have come together to share rhythm, to communicate, but also to heal. And that's something, having taught this body of work for so many years, that's what I see. People come to life from the inside and there's something that happens in the spaces when we give people permission to not dance.
to someone else's way of moving, but their way of moving and to find their rhythm. We call it flowing or their flow. And often we say trauma is a disruption of rhythm. And so to find one's true rhythm and then to let your body move in that and then possibly have other people witness that and mirror that for you, wow, it's really rich.
Pascal (11:25.535)
Absolutely. you know, from that first origin story of my experience of movement, it has evolved to a regular practice of ecstatic dance here in Bali. And it's such a, almost a religion here that people get together and on Sundays or in the Mecca.
Bettina Rothe (11:40.46)
Yeah, you're in the deep mecca of the ecstatic dance world.
Pascal (11:44.927)
Yeah. And so that experience of like being seen and reflected and seeing all the different styles of movement and there's absolutely zero judgment in this space is so healing. And I found that same feeling of healing and integration circles with medicines, right? Like feeling of being seen and heard without judgment, think is super powerful and you don't need medicines even to, to experience that is that shared humanity. It brings us into the space of
Bettina Rothe (12:03.565)
Yeah.
Bettina Rothe (12:09.475)
Yeah.
Pascal (12:11.281)
of rest and frequency and alignment, like you said, with our flow. And I find that that's just powerful medicine. how does this, and now I'm curious to talk about medicine work. Why does the body and embodiment matter in the psychedelic healing journey itself? And what does it mean to be in an embodied relationship with a psychedelic experience?
Bettina Rothe (12:24.331)
Absolutely.
Bettina Rothe (12:35.854)
Yeah, wow. It's a big question. I'm just going to see where to start because already earlier I mentioned that we have to be at home here to experience anything and that we're not seeking experience that are out there. And I think often there's that perception, especially in high doses of psychedelics, that we're leaving the body and we're experiencing somewhere else. But that's not the truth. We can only experience
Pascal (12:39.07)
That's a big question.
Bettina Rothe (13:05.037)
life in the body while we're on earth, you know, through our senses, through our nervous system. And we might open our gates of perception to other ways of perceiving, you know, which might be your imagination, your intuition, you know, hearing things, feeling into things that feel other worldly or not part of our day to day, you know, consciousness. we talk about the altered states of consciousness, but the vessel is still the body.
Pascal (13:08.254)
Mm.
Bettina Rothe (13:33.896)
And so what I know, you know, as someone who has supported and guided medicine journeys, but also who, one who has taken very, very many on my own is that the more connected I am and grounded in my body, the deeper I can go. And the more, able I also have am to co-create with the medicine. So, you know, very simple things can be noticing when I'm tightening and contracting the body, cause I'm scared.
Pascal (13:56.552)
Mm.
Bettina Rothe (14:03.614)
It's like what happens then often the mind comes in, people have all these moments of anxiety during the medicine journey. So the body here as a tool and the embodiment means that it's like, I noticed that and I can relax and trust and surrender and open again to the planned ally or psychedelic that I'm working with, as a simple example. The other thing that is really important is when we come out of the medicine experience,
Pascal (14:25.565)
Mm-hmm.
Bettina Rothe (14:30.808)
you know, so that we actually have a place to come back to. so somatic or body-based anchors are absolutely key, you know, for us to have a stable experience of the body. You know, it can be our connection to the earth. You know, right now, you and I are both sitting, even just like sinking a little deeper into your sits bones right now, right? It's like that, here I am. You know, this is my earth anchor. So, you know, again, we can...
Pascal (14:52.637)
Mmm.
Bettina Rothe (14:57.966)
come from that place of rooted and groundedness and then have deeper experiences.
Pascal (15:05.104)
Right. like being like a tree. want the tree needs to ground into the earth to, you know, reach out into the heavens, right? Like it's kind of coming together in that way of, of, of the ground being the foundation. And if we're dissociated from that, then it really limits the potentiality of these medicines. And like I said earlier, I came from a space of deep dissociation with my body, just completely in the head all the time. And it was only when I started to feel my body and accept my body, I think that's a big part of it.
Bettina Rothe (15:14.71)
Yeah. Yeah.
Bettina Rothe (15:20.034)
Yeah.
Bettina Rothe (15:28.173)
Yeah.
Pascal (15:34.672)
and attuned to it during experiences that I really started to feel a lot more depth and a lot more learnings from my experiences because I was actually present for it and not like, it's so easy to get into the ethereal realms and just completely dissociate. So yeah, that can really limit the potential of these experiences.
Bettina Rothe (15:53.108)
Absolutely. And of course, you know, sometimes we might want to explore the secrets of the universe, but we can do that from a place of solidity inside of ourselves. Right. So, so that's the one side body as a resource. The other part is, is body wisdom. You know, our Soma holds intelligence and it, I always say it's not just my own intelligence, but the wisdom of my ancestors. And I would go as far as to say my, my own past lives, they live in the Soma.
And so when I am in the psychedelic space, I can also pull up all that wisdom, you know, and can bring it to conscious awareness. So then the body becomes a library and a resource in a different way. And then thirdly is the body as experiencing and, know, a personal story that I want to share, you know, here just to showcase what I mean with that is, you know, one medicine journey, I for literally two hours constantly thought I have to go to bathroom.
Pascal (16:28.634)
Mm.
Bettina Rothe (16:52.59)
I have to go to bathroom. mean, how many times, know, can the mind say that I have to go to the bathroom? I think my bladder is full. I may have to go to the bathroom. And then I was like, wait a minute, do I? And then, you know, I actually attuned to my bladder and shifted attention down here and was like, what are you trying to tell me? What is going on here? And what was revealed? And this was like, you know, my brain shifting into German because I was, I was born there.
you know, was telling me all these like words for the bladder that is scared and the bladder holds fear and my bladder held a lot of fear. And so by hanging out with consciousness in my bladder, I was able to actually get underneath that constant urge to go pee, you know, which had my past led to like UTIs and like you name it. And I was like so grateful, you know, for my body to actually aid me.
Pascal (17:43.439)
Mm-hmm.
Bettina Rothe (17:49.006)
in the releasing of that deep-seated fear, which was a childhood memory that came up. And so it was a powerful reminder that my mind alone could have not moved forward. It needed that connection, experiencing of the discomfort of the body, and not seeing it as a bad thing, but this is information, and let me investigate that.
Pascal (17:52.667)
Hmm.
Pascal (18:01.125)
Mm.
Pascal (18:12.06)
Yeah, that curiosity about the wisdom library in the body is part curiosity and also trusting and honoring it and actually listening to it, right? It's a multi-part process that I've experienced. It's counterculture to the Western mind of using the brain to kind of solve everything. And then we forget the gut and we forget the body and we forget all these other bodies you mentioned earlier. So I think it's a cultural thing as well that we're kind of
walking, you know, brains on sticks, basically, a lot of times. And that just still happens to me as well. I'm not fully attuned or embodied yet, but it's definitely a cultural thing in the Western world.
Bettina Rothe (18:54.37)
Yeah, and it's a lifelong practice, right? Just because we're embodied once doesn't mean that we're going to be embodied tomorrow.
Pascal (19:01.326)
Absolutely not. Yeah. Absolutely not. Yeah. How can people tune into that intelligence more? What are ways that people can reconnect to that? Cause I've experienced it. I'm sure you've experienced the same. It's like you said, a lifelong process of continuously coming back to the body. For me personally, what's been really helpful is just really simple practices about tuning to the body and listening to it and taking care of it.
increasingly so developing a self-care practice and a self-love practice and places of reminders like ecstatic dance that the body is super intelligent and surrender to reigns a little bit once in a while and experience what that feels.
Bettina Rothe (19:43.074)
Yeah, yeah, the practices can be absolutely simple, you know, as even just placing our hands on our body and just remind ourselves like, I'm a feeling sensing being right, I can feel the hands on my body, I can feel my breath, I can feel my heartbeat. So beginning to make that connection between, you know, what am I paying attention to? Because if I'm just stuck in my we call it the chat room, you know, if I'm just stuck here.
you know, that's, that's great for moments of time, you know, when I'm like really problem solving, but most of the time I want to have access to all of myself and, you know, use the body, not just to carry my head around. And so it is, it is a body mind connection that we're creating. And a lot of it has to do with learning to pay attention. So the practices that I offer usually start with a body part meditation, which is just.
you you inhabiting your hands and it's like, can I put my attention right now? And you can do that right now with me. You know, can I put my attention, my hands and actually notice them, you know, notice each finger, how do they feel inside? How do they want to move sending some breath and care? Right. And so we do that. And then the mind can track
Pascal (20:55.418)
Mm.
Bettina Rothe (21:01.582)
what is alive in the hands and then, know, the hands might do something and you're like, what are you doing hands? And it's like, oh, I'm being kind to myself. Oh, this is nice. Right. And then the cheeks have a response, you know, they might blush. So, so it is a conversation that we're essentially entering, you know, with ourselves and treating our moving bodies as intelligent. I think you said that is that remembering, right? It's like this, this has its own intelligence and a lot of it.
moves faster than we can think or feel. Right? It's like that moment when you step into a room and your body has within milliseconds a response and you didn't plan that. You didn't feel into it. It's like, just happens, right? Or the going in and it's, that's what we're talking about. You know, you can call it instinct, you know, you can call it impulses, but the body communicates all the time. And so part of what we're doing is catching up to that.
Pascal (21:40.698)
Mm.
Bettina Rothe (22:00.856)
You know, and, that requires for a lot of us and retraining of what we pay attention to. So you could call it meditation. You're like Reggie Ray is one of my favorite meditation teachers. He's a Buddhist who talks about the awakening within the body. and he has a whole lot of great practices for, for the meditators out there.
Pascal (22:01.261)
Mmm.
Pascal (22:08.345)
Mm-hmm.
Pascal (22:22.49)
I remember my first body scan meditation. I actually was in Vancouver where you're at right now. It was about nine, 10 years ago. And I remember just feeling into my knees, for example, and be like, I haven't felt my knees ever. You know, I was like, I can feel my knees. It's amazing. Like I've never paid attention to my knees, for example. And, uh, you know, nowadays, you know, as I'm practicing paying more attention to all the parts is
sometimes I'll catch myself like being in the brain and like working for example, which is where my brain really goes a lot of times and just catching myself being completely disembodied with my body and just feeling actually highly uncomfortable. But I'm like holding this posture, whatever, when I'm working. But I pay attention more and that's, I think that's part of the process of opening up to these concepts. It's just to practice and catch yourself more and more. Like you said, I think it's a...
It's a very powerful and simple practice that you can start right now if you're listening, just like Bettina said, just feel your hands and see what happens. It's a bit of a magical discovery process is what I felt.
Bettina Rothe (23:15.949)
Yeah.
Bettina Rothe (23:23.52)
It is magical and to not only notice our body when we're hungry, tired or in pain, because I think often our attention only begins to track our physicality when one of these three components show up. And so I'm a big believer in pleasure and enjoying my physical experience, enjoying my senses, my sensuality, my interplay with life.
but it also means I need to be present so that I can notice, you know, the sound of the chimes and how they feel inside of my body. Or, you know, right now here in BC, we have these incredible like roses coming up. Lila was actually just sharing her rose garden with me on Salt Spring and we were smelling and I was like, my God, I love being in my body and just experiencing that, right? So part of us is also as a gateway into presence.
and anchoring ourselves into the sensing experience, the awareness of what is it like to be in this human vessel.
Pascal (24:26.712)
Yeah, it's about living every day as a ceremony, every moment as a gateway to our highest states, right? And within a psychedelic experience, like a lot of us are, like you said, trying to reach the gates of heavens or something similar. And yet so much of the healing and the transformation can happen in the mundane, the mundane quote unquote, if you're not seeing this on video, the mundane of the senses and the little, you know,
ways that our senses are getting activated during a ceremony. How can people support themselves and continuously coming back to the body when so much of the ethereal, maybe mind spiritual things are blasting with full neon lights and you can just be starry eyed and stare at it for like five hours or you can come back to the body. how do you actually practice that in an actual, you know, tangible terms?
Bettina Rothe (25:15.894)
Right. Yeah.
Bettina Rothe (25:22.828)
Yeah, yeah, I'm a bigger fan of psychedelics in nature than I am under neon lights, because it gives you that opportunity, right, to sit with the tree or to be by the river. And, and as you said, our senses are heightened. And wow, you know, I remember a few times, you know, being in those psychedelic states and just going like, wow, I know nothing. You know, I'm just a dumb human. There's magic out here and an inter
connection of everything that I don't understand, you know, from here, but I can feel it in my body, you know, and of course, you know, I think certain psychedelics are more connective than others. But, you know, the sheer enjoyment of looking of seeing things, you know, when you can see the matrix, when you can see
Pascal (26:00.279)
Mm.
Bettina Rothe (26:18.882)
you know, the energy body, let's say, of another being. Like to me, that's what makes psychedelics so fascinating because it enhances my experience of what it's like to be human, but a human in connection. You know, I think the neon light place is one place, you know, where, yes, we can have experiences. But I think there's also a danger there, you know, in that kind of artificial
Pascal (26:32.279)
Mm.
Bettina Rothe (26:48.328)
world that we sometimes create and take psychedelics more recreationally. And I do that as well, but I'm more more mindful of balancing that out with ceremonial experiences and ways that actually really enhance my way of being in myself rather than consuming.
Pascal (27:09.579)
Mm-hmm. Absolutely. And the neon lights I was referring to is the neon lights of the ethereal, because it's so attractive and it feels, it feels like Leon lights. Yeah. Well, I think there's a place for that. also, you know, I think it gives a completely different experience, but absolutely to what you shared about nature, I think is a very powerful reminder of connection. And, know, once you see that you can't put the rabbit back in the box.
Bettina Rothe (27:16.211)
All those swans! I thought you were talking about my clubs! Burning man!
Pascal (27:38.218)
Like once you've seen that and felt and in the body that connection to all things, can't unsee it. I think one of my most powerful experiences I've been with 5MEO DMT and those experiences were very body based for me. It was all about how much beauty and love can I actually accept in my body that's already available in the universe? How much of that can actually integrate in my body? And that was a very physical.
experience for me of, of movement and letting go and de-stressing and releasing and a lot got let go in my physical body. So we hold a lot of those stories and a lot of these misconceptions within our, our body and nervous system. And I think that's accumulated to, like you said, the Soma and the generations before us. Can you speak a little bit more about that stored stuff inside our body?
Bettina Rothe (28:30.382)
Yeah, absolutely. You know, one of my mentors, Thomas Hubel, he talks a lot about intergenerational trauma and how it's being passed down. You know, like in my family, both of my sides of the grandparents, they lived through both world wars, World War I, World War II in Germany. And, you know, like many people after the after a war, they don't talk about anything, right? And
the emotional, physical and mental experience gets stored in their body somewhere. It gets like locked in. You know, one of my clients calls it the black box, creating this black box of, you know, stuff. And so what we know now is that that box, that stuff gets passed down as in like to my parents and then to us, you know, as the next generation, like I'm the grandchild.
Pascal (29:05.526)
Mm-hmm.
Bettina Rothe (29:25.542)
of those people that experienced two World Wars, World War I and World War II. And so there's been a lot of studies done from social kind of backgrounds and educational. It's like, who are these people that are living as the grandchildren? And I just recently read a book, it was called in German, but I'll translate it for you.
you know, the grandchildren of the survivors. And it showed that we carry a lot of anxiety and a lot of distress that is not explainable, you know, even though we have so much going on, of course, you know, in our day to day as well, but it's like an existential angst that so many people carry, especially in Germany. And so, you know, the author went as far to say, it's like, you know, we are affected by what our grand...
parents did not process. And so I thought that's really interesting. And my own experience has certainly been that, you know, that, and especially in the medicine space, I have memories coming up outside of my body somewhere that I know they're not mine. You know, was like my grandmother running away, you know, with children on her hand and a suitcase, you know, it's like, where's that coming from? She never told me those stories. So
Pascal (30:46.901)
Mm.
Bettina Rothe (30:47.566)
You know, I'm not sure I'm not a neuroscientist and epigenetics is a field that we're talking about as we can change our coding through this type of work that we're doing. I'm no expert on that. So my experience is more what I see within myself and what I see within the clients that I've been supporting. And there's strong evidence that if we're willing, if we're willing...
Pascal (31:01.205)
Mm-hmm.
Bettina Rothe (31:14.776)
to turn towards the stories that have come through our ancestral lines, that in the here and the now, we can bring healing, not just to ourselves, but also to our ancestors. So, one body of work that I have is called The Stories We Hold, and it works with the idea of somatic excavation. And so that excavation principle is...
Pascal (31:28.095)
Mm-hmm.
Bettina Rothe (31:39.01)
Let's say, you know, I have a right hip that's been sore my whole life. It's like, well, let's go in there. Let's see what's happening in there. You know, and maybe it's a place that my mother also had as as a, as a pain point and maybe my grandmother and maybe there is something like an imprint. talk about somatic body based imprints that lives there. Right. And so it's, it's approaching our bodies with curiosity, but also kindness and especially using
Pascal (32:08.18)
Mmm.
Bettina Rothe (32:08.808)
pain or discomfort or tightness or places that are not inhabited as information. I used to work a lot with women that were recovering from sexual abuse. And it's like there are certain parts of their body that are off limits. They don't go there in mind or touching or anything. And so when you go deeper into those imprints, we can often see that those patterns are inherited.
And some of it is conditioning, but my understanding is that there is an energetic imprint that we carry, that we carry forward until it's resolved. And resolved means that there's no more charge and that's the healing work, right?
Pascal (32:53.983)
Mm-hmm. That's powerful. I can definitely trace back some of my own physical things to my dad and his father as well. And I have a friend who, his ancestor was in World War I, and he was a night guard in some of the parts of the war. He was checking out, you know, what's happening at night to stand guard for the other soldiers who were sleeping. And so my friend wakes up at night, every night at 1 a.m. or so, because he has this pattern of
being a night watch basically. that's, think that's very powerful. And what you shared about the way to get curious about that. Again, we're talking about curiosity, like actually being curious. then you also said kindness, which is something I'd love to bring up as well as the site, this concept of actually not using the body as a hammer or like a Abrams tank or like a Jeep or something. just like use it, use it, use it. But there's, I think a discovery of.
aspects of self-love like when you were rubbing your cheeks there like this this aspect of actually loving ourselves and loving our body in Ayurvedic medicine there's a practice called Abhyanga which is using black sesame oil to you know massage yourself every night and a lot of Indian people do that as a self-care practice and when I started using that practice and practicing the practice I found a lot of
Bettina Rothe (34:04.226)
Yes.
Pascal (34:18.356)
pieces of self love that I was like, you know, this is actually something that's very powerful and something that I can keep practicing. I think as a culture in general, we hold a lot of that body pain from our ancestors and also the practice of loving our soul, like truly practice. And that's a very difficult for a lot of people. I've had a lot of body things in the past when I was bullied as a kid. And so I always had this like piece of, don't love my body or whatever, but
these sort of practices, I've really changed my relationship to myself and it goes very deep because once you love your body, your heart opens up, your relationship gets better, you show up in a better way. All these things blossom from that piece of self love.
Bettina Rothe (35:01.004)
Yeah, absolutely. And you just brought in, I think, a really important piece too, you know, and I think I have two daughters, you they're 19 and 22 now. And both of them are really, really affected with their body image by the culture, especially social media and the conditioning of what a young woman has to look like. And I think we're really up against that as well as our own judgments and criticism of our physicality and
You know, the suppression of impulses, right? It's like, I don't want to eat, so I suppress my hunger. Or, you know, I can't be tired. I still have five hours to work. So we suppress being tired. And so there's over time, the body begins to not send those signals anymore, right? Or we numb out to them, as in like, we don't even hear that anymore. So, you know, part of that reclaiming is to learn to check in with ourselves. It's like, what do I need?
And that is body, heart and mind, and spirit, usually say that's an important aspect too. It's like that wellness wheel of all four quadrants. And then if we wanted to add the social quadrant, because we are social beings, we could bring that in as well. What do I need in a social context? But it is a different way, as you said, of thinking about our bodies, not just to function like a machine.
But to care for it, like Mary Oliver says in her poem, Well, Ghee, is letting the soft animal of our bodies love what they love. Like every time I get chills when I hear that, because it's like, yeah, we know what we love, if we're really honest with ourselves. And especially as women, we're up against the forever youth myth.
And the cyclical nature of being a woman is not really part of our work life. It's like that we have to be the same at all times. I think it's also something that we're busting. And I certainly have seen that the psychedelic space, because people are not using the usual judgments and parts of their brain brings out another level of loving oneself. And that includes the body, just them.
Bettina Rothe (37:22.286)
the magic, you know, when you see people going like, oh my God, what's happening, right? That miracle of life that pulses through us. You know, I think even for that, you know, to be in a medicine space, to really acknowledge what it means to be alive is one of the most potent places to be.
Pascal (37:26.492)
You
Pascal (37:39.164)
Hmm
Pascal (37:42.866)
Absolutely. And I remember one ceremony I had, it was just a men's group using Washuma, San Pedro, for those who don't know. And a big part of that ceremony was about reconnection to the animal, the wild part of our bodies. And at some point in the ceremony, we're all howling different animal sounds together. And it was so primal and so funny and so healing to be expressing that wildness.
And to embody that in the body, which is something that as floating brains and Jeep drivers, we sometimes forget that part of that wild part of our body, that wild expression of our body. And we suppress it in a lot of ways. Can you talk a little bit more about that wild side or that animal body that you mentioned earlier and how it relates to expression or authenticity and reconnection to our humaneness really?
Bettina Rothe (38:38.166)
Yeah, absolutely. You know, I sometimes think we're too over identified with our neocortex, you know, which is like right here. It's like the most modern part of our brains. And we're like, we got a neocortex, you know, we're so cool. We can plan, we can think our way through stuff, but underneath it is a reptilian brain, right? And it connects us more to those instincts that you're talking about and our emotionality and to our animal cells. And there's so much wisdom there.
Pascal (38:51.505)
Woohoo!
Bettina Rothe (39:07.906)
Right? It's like to trust that it's like sensing, you know, there's a pressure change. It's like, Whoa, something's happening. Right? It's like a deer would do that. What's happening, you know, and then boom, you know, maybe a tree falls over, but it's like that understanding that, you know, this vessel perceives faster than I can think, you know, but it means that I have to be awake to it. And
Pascal (39:11.601)
Hmm.
Pascal (39:35.814)
Mm.
Bettina Rothe (39:36.438)
not just hang out here, you know, thinking about life, but I need to allow myself to experience life. you know what you were talking about kind of that wildness, that remembering also reminds me of, you know, cultural suppression of our primal force of sexuality, right? Cause that's that's all part of it. You know, we have to talk about pleasure. haven't talked about sexuality, but if I cut myself off here and from that primal fire,
Pascal (39:53.957)
No, that we could do a whole podcast of 10 hours on that one. Yeah.
Bettina Rothe (40:05.772)
Right? It's like, yeah, I'm not, you know, the church has done wonders to us in that separation of spirit, body, sexuality. And, you know, it's like we're reclaiming our sexual nature here as well. And that primal part of ourselves that knows how to create, that knows how to defend ourselves, you know, that knows how to move aggression through our bodies. know, sometimes when we give people permission, and I don't know if that was your experience with the men and the Wachuma.
You know, people get really intense because it's like, holy shit, you know, and that discovering, but that eventually settles, you know, it's like, yeah, that's me too, you know, but there's also, you know, snake energy and there's maybe the owl, you know, it's like we can connect to so many of our animal ancestors and relatives and, you know, all kinds of kin through our body and the memory.
Pascal (40:52.654)
Mm-hmm.
Pascal (41:02.0)
Mm-hmm.
Bettina Rothe (41:02.874)
connects us to the wild and to me wild is life force you know if I'm used to contracting my life force or pushing it down you know reclaiming that is like can often feel like there's a lot coming up and a lot of people get very scared you know when energy moves and they're like my god I'm feeling so sexual I don't know what to do help
Pascal (41:07.428)
Yeah.
Pascal (41:20.175)
Mm-hmm.
Pascal (41:27.214)
Yeah, there's a cult.
Bettina Rothe (41:27.5)
And we know that that can happen in a psychedelic space, It's like that unleashing of that force.
Pascal (41:32.355)
Yeah.
Yeah, there was definitely a very loud gorilla in the space that was really releasing a lot. I mean, there's a lot of suppression there for sure. And a lot of what you're talking about it about here is the relationship we have with ourselves and others and the surface area between us and life itself and how we're actually welcoming it, embracing it, letting it in and trusting in.
life itself and life itself is destruction and creation all the time. And it's a very creative process. It's continuously happening around us. And yet I think there's a part of us that wants to control that a little bit. Like I know I've definitely had a sense of like wanting to control thing and the detention comes from that of like, no, it needs to be a certain way. And I can't fully open and surrender because I don't fully trust it. And I think that goes very deep in our psyche and our ancestors.
A lot of what you're sharing is about repatterning all that through little exercises or practices or joining a group or getting coaching or opening up the shell that we've been building around us slowly and slowly. And all of a sudden we're a more porous membrane where all this information can flow more fluidly and magic can happen in that space.
Bettina Rothe (42:57.676)
Yeah. I like how you said, you know, letting life in, and then you also use expression as in like, this is my response to life, right? And a very simple way, you know, to even check in with oneself is our quality of the breath, you know, because the inhale lets in and the exhale lets out. And that's the part of the expression. And, you know, if we work with movement, it's like letting in and letting out. And for a lot of us, you know, we, we stop the exhale.
Pascal (43:12.239)
Mm.
Bettina Rothe (43:27.532)
There's that containment, contraction, repression, depression. And that's the opposite of that freedom and creativity. And it can lead to all kinds of issues. It's like long periods of time holding in, and especially if it's connected to true experiences. Like I should be angry right now, but I'm holding it down. Someone just stole my car, but no, I'm not going to let anything out.
Pascal (43:52.27)
Hmm.
Bettina Rothe (43:56.45)
You know, it's like we actually damage ourselves because we're not allowing the energy to move. And so part of what we're learning, you know, in the five rhythms work and breath work, and I think in some ways in the psychedelic space too, is to trust the movement of energy. And energy always moves in the same way. It's, you know, we let it in, we need to enter somehow. And then once we've let in, we need to let out, you know, it's like the yin goes into the yang.
Pascal (44:02.392)
Right.
Bettina Rothe (44:25.824)
And then we let go, know, only then we let go. cannot let go before we have let in or let out. And I think a lot of people say, I just want to let it all go. But it's like, well, are you willing to let it in first and authentically express? And then you can let it go. And after the letting go is where the transformation begins because new space opens up, right? And that is the magical part where a lot of healing can occur.
Pascal (44:28.652)
Mm.
Pascal (44:49.998)
Mm-hmm.
Pascal (44:55.085)
I love that you say that because so much of the healing work isn't about turning away or letting go. Like you said, it's about embracing what is present in whatever way, shape, even if it's unpleasant or it's not exactly the way you want it. There's a lot of healing and letting it in and accepting, for example, the ancestral stuff that might be hurting your hip is like paying attention to it. Accepting that is there. can be a big process for a lot of folks because there's pain involved or there's tension or there's a story.
Bettina Rothe (45:02.412)
Yeah.
Pascal (45:23.325)
That's quite charged. so a lot of this medicine work is about, yeah, breathing in and letting go. I think the letting go part is such a cultural thing as well around maybe our fear of death is that we're not able to let go of things because we're kind of holding on to life itself and not fully accepting death itself and our mortality really in this transient life that we live. so a lot of what you're sharing is about living in the present moment.
Bettina Rothe (45:41.516)
Yeah.
Pascal (45:52.011)
which I think comes with a lot of trust to be fully present to it.
Bettina Rothe (45:55.894)
Yeah, it is about that and it goes even further. It's me taking responsibility for my own energy being, right? And knowing that I'm the medicine person, I don't need to take medicine, but I can move energy. You know, I can do that simply by paying attention. You know, I can let in, I can let out, I can let go, and I can trust that process of transformation happening when I have done those things.
And to me, that's a path of empowerment and a path that takes us away from, need a therapist, I need a guru, I need all those things. Of course we need support, but I'm much more of a fan of saying, I'm here with you, I'm your guide, I'm your person to hold the space with you and show you these tools, but you need to do the work. And it's so empowering for people. It's like...
I read a sign once, you somebody came to the chiropractor and the chiropractor was assigned. It's like, don't leave your responsibility at the door. Bring it in with you. And I think we do that, right? It's like, just fix me. Right. Or we go to a therapist, just take my pain away. But there was that piece of, of going like, as you said, acceptance is like, ow, I'm moving with pain today. Can I really let that in? And in that acknowledgement, something already happens in the body mind.
Because I'm no longer overriding, I'm no longer resisting, I'm no longer pretending or avoiding. Right? It's like, I'm with myself and then that pain can inform me and there might be an expression, even if it's just ouch, ouch, ouch. But if I do that enough, letting in, letting out, will change. And that's the magic of it all, right? It's not a status quo because it's movement. But then energy stagnates when we're stuck or frozen or
Pascal (47:26.893)
Mm.
Pascal (47:41.325)
Mm-hmm.
Bettina Rothe (47:50.272)
not willing to go there, that's when we have those like, well, nothing will ever change moments. It's like we're keeping it in the status quo. And so the most powerful thing we can do is inhale, believe it or not, like fully inhale, like really let in our experience, and then letting the exhale happen, you know, with a lot of permission, just go on like, let's see what happens. Right. And it involves trusting ourselves or trusting the containers that we're choosing because
Pascal (47:55.789)
Mm-hmm.
Pascal (48:13.355)
Yeah.
Bettina Rothe (48:18.53)
We don't know what's gonna come out with an exhale. What actually is.
Pascal (48:21.438)
Yeah, it's a lot. Yeah, it's a powerful practice and Robin, which you know already is a very strong proponent of, know, the quality of your life is reflected in your breath, you know, basically. Yeah. And the exhale is a big part of the trust and surrender and the inhale is all about energy and letting it in. And there was a couple of authors you mentioned in our previous conversation, which is Gabriel Roth and Bessel van der Kolk. Apologies if I don't.
Bettina Rothe (48:33.686)
Yes, absolutely. Absolutely.
Bettina Rothe (48:50.625)
Yeah. Yeah.
Pascal (48:51.765)
And they say that the body does not lie and that our bodies keep the score. And so I'm curious about fleshing that out a little bit more, but also how could, what are the signs that someone's body is revealing a deeper truth that the mind may have suppressed? Like what are ways to pick up on those things?
Bettina Rothe (49:09.742)
Well, our bodies are always communicating. It's just up to us to dial into the channel to actually notice, right? So, know, Gabrielle Roth said the body doesn't lie. And that just means that there's an element of authenticity, you know, when we're not overriding what's happening, but just like by acknowledging someone's posture, right? I mean, if you're sitting in my program like this, and you're putting a fake smile on, I'm not going to buy it.
Pascal (49:16.705)
Mm.
Bettina Rothe (49:36.204)
because I can see the resistance in you and the holding of the belly, the holding of the ground, right? And so I get curious about that, you know, when we're not presenting congruently, you know, our body's really honest with moving towards if I'm curious or interested in something or something feels safe or, you know, I'm moving away when it doesn't. And so we're learning to pay attention to that.
you know, that like deep seated wisdom of the Soma that, you know, I think everybody that I've worked with can wake up to quite easily. Cause you can, just need to look at yourself in the mirror, right? And like, what am I seeing right now? Right. And in my case, when I'm anxious, it's like my shoulders are up, my chest contracts, you know, my eyes get really big. I'm like, honey, you're scared. Okay. You know,
Pascal (50:17.931)
That's all right.
Bettina Rothe (50:31.798)
And so I can take that as information, how I connect with myself, but also how I connect with others. When I see my kids and I've watched their body language, there's so much that they're revealing, even though they might say very little. So it's another way that we can learn from each other in that nonverbal communication. We say that...
Pascal (50:39.488)
Mm.
Pascal (50:48.971)
Mmm.
Bettina Rothe (50:56.76)
Probably 75%, I mean, statistics vary of all communication is nonverbal. And so that means that we learn to pay attention to those cues, not just for ourselves, but for our relations. The second author that you brought up is Bessel van der Kolk and he is an interesting man. I studied with him a little bit. He is foundational in the mental health world and acknowledging that trauma is the root
Pascal (51:10.283)
Mm-hmm.
Bettina Rothe (51:26.478)
cause for a lot of our conditions. And, you know, he worked with Harvard and many, many brilliant minds, you know, as a psychiatrist, as a doctor, really pointing towards that the body, if we experience trauma, you know, keeps that trauma stored. Gabor Matei is another one who works with that concept, you know, when the body says no. And so that understanding is that, you know, unless we
we find the root cause which often lives in the body as a gestalt to bring in a psychology term as something that hasn't resolved itself, right? As an imprint that remains that over top we can potentially have all kinds of behavioral or mental or emotional problems, but that's actually not the problem itself. It's what lives underneath it.
And so that was and is very instrumental in bringing awareness to early childhood trauma and the truth of trauma.
Pascal (52:27.37)
And that's very powerful and deep work and a lot of insights and wisdom come from getting curious once again about what's living there. And we've talked a lot about the bodies as providing a gateway for change and transformation. And I'd like to shift as we're closing here soon. How does this work start impacting people? Like, let's say I'm starting to...
develop a somatic practice, I'm starting to pay attention, I'm getting curious, how does it change our relationships and how does it change our life? And how do we know that healing is taking root when we're starting to explore these things? And what changes when we start to do this work that you've been teaching for many years now?
Bettina Rothe (53:15.97)
You always ask big question, Pascal. This is our closing question. Okay. So, so what I will say, you know, I've been, been holding spaces for over 25 years and I will just tell you what I see when people start and what I see over time. You know, I often see people coming into the spaces being primarily here.
as in like thinkers, observers, you know, there's an element of self judgment, self consciousness, maybe stories, and then they kind of get into the body. And often it's not a pleasant experience right away, right? Because we suddenly begin to notice how, you know, I actually have back pain and actually my digestion is off. So it's not like healing is always pleasurable, but what we build is capacity to tolerate and be with.
And not just tolerate, but find that what we talked about, self-love and acceptance, it's like, oh, my body is going through something, or I'm actually tired, I need to go rest. So when we begin to do that, that cycle of tending and using embodiment practices, which doesn't just have to be conscious dance, it can be breath, can be yoga, it can be running, it can be Tai Chi, it can be all kinds of things. But I say the components here are learning to pay attention.
and being mindful and moving your body with that mindfulness in mind, which often includes a mindfulness of breath, mindfulness of space and a mindfulness of connection to other. We become more whole back to how we started. We suddenly begin to feel like there's more of us there. And we're maybe more present, not just to ourselves, but...
Pascal (55:04.008)
Mm-hmm.
Bettina Rothe (55:09.496)
but to others and life. And the other thing that goes up over time, you know, is the sense of aliveness. People actually looking more alive, feeling more alive, there's more energy available. And over time, the experience of pleasure of, holy shit, I'm embodied, you know, goes up. And it's not the same path for everyone, obviously, but just from what I've seen as an increase in mobility,
Pascal (55:22.824)
Mm.
Pascal (55:31.432)
Mm-hmm.
Bettina Rothe (55:39.118)
People tend to look younger even because of how they move. When we free ourselves of these patterns that most of the time have elements of contraction and holding, and we liberate and become fluid and spacious, our movement also connects us to that youthfulness that the Taoists talk about, the cheap flow that is accessible to us. So those are just a few pieces.
Pascal (56:00.904)
Mm.
Bettina Rothe (56:08.002)
You know, I think also just the fun of what it's like to be in a body and not to be limited, you know, by our perception of it. Because I think for most of us, it's probably true that we limit ourselves and identity. Well, I'm not a dancer. I'm not this. I'm not that. And the dance, same as the psychedelic space, he really invites us to grow beyond that and, you know, connect with something that's bigger than us. And I find it in the dance, you know, I find it.
Pascal (56:36.071)
Hmm.
Bettina Rothe (56:36.814)
in the breath, I find it in the psychedelic journey, is like understanding that my small persona is just an aspect of me. And of course, it's an important one. And that's the one that, you know, I'm relating with most of the time, but I have access to so much more. And then, you know, the mystery comes through the vessel of the body. It's like, wow, you know, here I am. I'm seeing, I'm sensing, I'm seeing you, you know. So,
Pascal (57:00.721)
Mm-hmm.
Pascal (57:04.871)
Mm.
Bettina Rothe (57:05.58)
element, maybe you can call it wonder and play and fun.
Pascal (57:10.673)
Yes. I found that the more healing work you do, the more wonder, play, and fun comes in and reminds us of the fact that we're on a rock in space floating around and it's a freaking miracle that we exist. And if you just look at a flower or the eyes of a loved one or a child or, know, name it, it's just miracles are bound around us. And that's what my five M.U. experience was.
Bettina Rothe (57:22.221)
Hahaha
Bettina Rothe (57:37.347)
Yeah.
Pascal (57:37.777)
plugging into my body and there's been this spark of joy ever since because I just appreciate the miracle. And of course it's not that I bypass all the unpleasant things, but there's a resource that's always there in present. That's the truth and I know it and I felt it in my body. And so yeah, thank you so much for the work you're doing and I'm really excited for the online group experience. You're to be hosting at NICTAR next week and share a little bit more about that.
Hopefully we can do regular ones because I think movement is such a powerful gateway. And yeah, just thank you for all the work and for being on the podcast today.
Bettina Rothe (58:15.69)
Yeah, thank you, Pascal, and thank you to all of you at Nectara. It's such an important platform to have and to be sharing these resources as we're all, think, on this path of expansion, of consciousness, of our ability to impact. That's a whole other part of, I think, the psychedelic space that I'm passionate about is what do we do with our experiences? But yes, we're doing the life circle and it will include movement practices, really.
looking at some simple tools through body, breath and movement that we can use as anchors for our psychedelic experiences, but not obviously just in that space. I usually recommend daily somatic practices, even if it's just five minutes, to begin that training of body and mind and to develop our understanding of our own ability to move energy.
So we will go through the five rhythms as a vessel, as a vehicle, to move energy in the live call next Thursday. And that is Thursday PST time. Yeah.
Pascal (59:18.791)
Beautiful kinder shirt.
Perfect. And can you share just a little bit about the five rhythms framework and the basics of it?
Bettina Rothe (59:25.238)
Yeah, absolutely. So Five Rhythms is an embodied spirituality. Gabor Roth, who we mentioned earlier, was the founder of it. you know, her whole approach was how do we bring spirit back into the body? You know, how do we become embodied beings that have a heart and have a mind where everything works together?
And she found such extreme disconnection from the body. She lived and worked at Esalen Institute together with Ritz Pearls, who was the founder of Gestalt Psychology and the father of psychology in many ways. And he said, you have to help me, Gabrielle. You know, was like, all my groups, they just want to talk, talk, talk, think, think, think. And, you know, she got people moving. And when you get the body moving, the psyche begins to open itself. And then people started feeling.
And she was like, my God, what are we gonna do with all these emotions now? Right, so she began to build these medicine maps and we call them medicine because we believe here that movement is the medicine. And so the five rhythms, you know, is a medicine map in itself and it is designed to wake up the medicine person inside of ourselves. And it is also designed to move ourselves back into wholeness and alignment bit by bit.
And, you know, the classes are a lot of fun. We do them all over the world and every community has their own flavor. I've been doing it for a very long time and I travel extensively to teach this work. And it can look just like you said, ecstatic dance, you know, there's a DJ and people are rocking out. And it can look like really deep, deep, deep soul work. And I was just on Salt Spring Island for with 80 other people, you know, go into this deep container and it's like.
When you put the psyche in motion and not just me, but in community, also the relational web becomes really visible. You know, am I able to look into your eyes and be present as simple as that? You know, still notice my own breathing and my own feet. For some people that's like, I don't even know what I'm doing here. So there's a learning also how to be together in community, how to be embodied, how to care about each other, how to show up.
Pascal (01:01:23.962)
Mm-hmm. Yeah.
Pascal (01:01:39.417)
Hmm. Yeah.
Bettina Rothe (01:01:41.294)
So it's not a practice that is just done in isolation.
Pascal (01:01:45.785)
Yeah, beautiful. Can't wait. So excited. Thank you so much. yeah. To everyone else out there, try moving, feeling your body, whatever feels right. But yeah, it's a lot of richness waiting for us in that space.
Bettina Rothe (01:01:49.262)
You're so welcome.
Bettina Rothe (01:01:58.38)
Yeah, honestly, the best thing to do is just find your favorite piece of music and just rock out in your kitchen. You know, it doesn't have to be a specialist spiritual thing. And I think often people have this, I have to get a studio. I have to have the right clothes. It's like, no, you could be you in your bathrobe, you know, dancing to your favorite new house track. I mean, that's me. I'm a house DJ, you know, like whatever it is, but it's that willingness to move the body and not just the head, but
Pascal (01:02:08.73)
Yeah.
Bettina Rothe (01:02:27.51)
Now use your whole vessel because it's fun.
Pascal (01:02:31.255)
You have fun. Yeah. Thank you so much, Bettina. Be well. And thank you so much for being here.
Bettina Rothe (01:02:35.446)
Yes, you're so welcome. Until our next time. Bye, Pascal.
Pascal (01:02:38.339)
Yeah, bye.
